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Mentalist Update

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Nowaki

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Hey hey ! ~ So finally a new update about mentalist ! Very Happy we should be happy but....
@Mazey wrote:- Knock-back chance for Wands has been adjusted. The chance of knocking your opponent back from a Full Charge has been reduced from 50% to 25%, any other charge level has been reduced from 30% to 10%.
Now... the only thing that make us survive from Bps is gone Very Happy.... Before the only way to killa Bp was waiting until he comes to you running [cuz if he jump and run away your energy balls will never hit them....] then u use basic atack, knock him back so he wont be able to cast azal Very Happy yes it was nice... Kinda hard to do since they just jump and run away, but we had a chance ! ... Now the that chance is gone :/ and now the super ultra slow balls have less chance to knock-back, one of the better things than the underpowered mentalist have, its gone :/

Im not making this topic for rage or cry, i just wanto say that im complety disagree with that change... I mean, nerf a class that its not bad, but isnt good..... and u left untouched the OP class *BP im looking at you* ... its kinda senseless for me :/.... But thats just my personal opinion.
Thx for read

Note: Selling FD Mentalist STA & Int

Cheers~

##1 - Posted on Fri Sep 12, 2014 1:48 am
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Nowaki

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@aceportgaz wrote:Learn how 2 play psys confused  the right way
whats the right way for you? :3, for me the "right" way is using skills not basic atacks, thats the "right" way to play a mage for me Smile

##3 - Posted on Fri Sep 12, 2014 4:17 am
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LEgionDark

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Here is a thing that most ppl forgot to mention... GS modes.

##4 - Posted on Fri Sep 12, 2014 4:20 am
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Nowaki

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@aceportgaz wrote:
@Nowaki wrote:
whats the right way for you? :3, for me the "right" way is using skills not basic atacks, thats the "right" way to play a mage for me Smile

fk you crying about the update then
1- avoid use that kind of lenguaje please, none is insulting you, so you dont need to.
Now, going back to topic, the "rigth" way doesnt work here on mazey, basic atacks in FD STA deal about 160m (non-charged), aether gasp (higgest damage skill of menta) deal 120m with sale gear also is a close range & have CD.
On FD INT basic deals 450m & aether deals about 230m.... so there's no point in use magic skills
Note: all damages are calculed on BPs/yj

@LEgionDark wrote:Here is a thing that most ppl forgot to mention... GS modes.
Yeah.... not sure why u mention it, but yes o.o

##6 - Posted on Fri Sep 12, 2014 10:26 am
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Magic

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menta has been nerf.. so they dont want other char in gs? they only want fm and harle in siege? lol
menta is not that strong in gs and yet nerf >_<

##7 - Posted on Fri Sep 12, 2014 2:15 pm
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Amnesty

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This change isn't unwarranted at all. Let me explain.

You say basic attacks deal "160m" with STA gear and "450m" with INT gear. For one, this statement isn't definitive. Basic attack damage is calculated by your Attack and your opponent's ADOCH. Therefore, damage is always variable.

This makes the basic attack of Mentalists easily the best attack in-game. No other attack increases with relation to your opponent's gear and not your own. This has not changed.

Let's say you're going against a full donor. From cards on Weapon/Shield, that's 300% ADOCH. Harlequin's armor adds another 1200% ADOH. GT adds another 200% ADOCH. Against an FM or any other class, they'll have ~300-500% ADOCH at minimum. Against a Harlequin, they'll have 1500%~1700% at minimum. This is what guarantees the ~100m damage you see from basic gear in STA equipment. This has not and will not be changed.

The thing that has changed is knockback.

This is the knockback that makes you fall on your back and not the one that simply pushes you back, mind you.

The greatest issue with the high knockback is as you say: it allows you to completely take down close-range classes. The problem: it completely disabled them after you landed a single hit.

When hit once and knocked down, it was previously close to impossible to get back up without being knocked back once again. Even if you did, chances were that the following attack would again knock you down.

While you could run away and come back to attack (as you mentioned), the fact that it was impossible to get back up after being hit once made the attack very broken.

This was causing many problems, both inside and outside of siege. Not only did it prevent close-range classes from being able to attack a Mentalist, it also caused players to end up being hit over the siege walls, preventing them from re-entering.

To add: it was very rare that you could target a FM that was actively targeting you in siege. If you were, then it is as you say: you could take care of them quickly. If you weren't, the number of magic attacks would accumulate and thus knock the FM out of the arena when the FM stopped/the attacks caught up to them. This was a lose-lose situation, to say the least. The only way to escape was to keep running around until they lost their effectiveness or the Mentalist was killed by the FM (who was actively monitoring the trailing magic attacks and able to target the Mentalist) or another sieger.

This is why knockback was reduced (NOT removed).

It still has a chance to occur, and it still does the same damage as ever.

---

Mentalists are also not underpowered nor do we not want them in siege. They have a one of the best rooting skills along with a high amount of HP and reflect. They will excel in the new "No Skill" siege types where players will likely adapt to ADOCH builds as well as others. This alteration in no-way prevents them from being able to compete.

##8 - Posted on Fri Sep 12, 2014 3:53 pm

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Nowaki

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@Amnesty wrote:This change isn't unwarranted at all. Let me explain.

You say basic attacks deal "160m" with STA gear and "450m" with INT gear. For one, this statement isn't definitive. Basic attack damage is calculated by your Attack and your opponent's ADOCH. Therefore, damage is always variable.

This makes the basic attack of Mentalists easily the best attack in-game. No other attack increases with relation to your opponent's gear and not your own. This has not changed.

Let's say you're going against a full donor. From cards on Weapon/Shield, that's 300% ADOCH. Harlequin's armor adds another 1200% ADOH. GT adds another 200% ADOCH. Against an FM or any other class, they'll have ~300-500% ADOCH at minimum. Against a Harlequin, they'll have 1500%~1700% at minimum. This is what guarantees the ~100m damage you see from basic gear in STA equipment. This has not and will not be changed.

The thing that has changed is knockback.

This is the knockback that makes you fall on your back and not the one that simply pushes you back, mind you.

The greatest issue with the high knockback is as you say: it allows you to completely take down close-range classes. The problem: it completely disabled them after you landed a single hit.

When hit once and knocked down, it was previously close to impossible to get back up without being knocked back once again. Even if you did, chances were that the following attack would again knock you down.

While you could run away and come back to attack (as you mentioned), the fact that it was impossible to get back up after being hit once made the attack very broken.

This was causing many problems, both inside and outside of siege. Not only did it prevent close-range classes from being able to attack a Mentalist, it also caused players to end up being hit over the siege walls, preventing them from re-entering.

To add: it was very rare that you could target a FM that was actively targeting you in siege. If you were, then it is as you say: you could take care of them quickly. If you weren't, the number of magic attacks would accumulate and thus knock the FM out of the arena when the FM stopped/the attacks caught up to them. This was a lose-lose situation, to say the least. The only way to escape was to keep running around until they lost their effectiveness or the Mentalist was killed by the FM (who was actively monitoring the trailing magic attacks and able to target the Mentalist) or another sieger.

This is why knockback was reduced (NOT removed).

It still has a chance to occur, and it still does the same damage as ever.

---

Mentalists are also not underpowered nor do we not want them in siege. They have a one of the best rooting skills along with a high amount of HP and reflect. They will excel in the new "No Skill" siege types where players will likely adapt to ADOCH builds as well as others. This alteration in no-way prevents them from being able to compete.
1- Yes, i know the ADOCH calculation, thats why (if you check post again) i said "Note: all damages are calculed on BPs/yj" since their sets have ADOCH in effect....
Now, well it was true, once u where caught by the balls u will keep knocked down, but thats only if youre close enought (meaning that if u were running directly to the mentalist without even jump) other wise, u could run after the knock-back without any problem.... But lets go back to the once who face the mentalist, yes, it was a perma knock back, but there was chance of cast an azal [a lot of Bps did it, even when they was caught with knock-back spam] but, is no the same that if a Bp catchs u ure dead? or if a YJ target you, die without chance f anything cuz of DI ? about the Hp for reflect, let me tell you that actually a Bp [yeah, those who have the OP damage] can get higger Hp than a mentalist can.

Plus: "the basic attack of Mentalists easily the best attack in-game. No other attack increases with relation to your opponent's gear and not your own." when your able to hit 1.1b+ no matter what ur oponent wearing.... i guess its better than the mentalist basic atack Very Happy, also there are no cracks or blades in game [the ones who use ICD] so ur damage will never scale more than the default adoch that comes with MC & Sets of Bps & YJ

##9 - Posted on Fri Sep 12, 2014 5:15 pm
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Amnesty

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@Nowaki wrote:1- Yes, i know the ADOCH calculation, thats why (if you check post again) i said "Note: all damages are calculed on BPs/yj" since their sets have ADOCH in effect....
Now, well it was true, once u where caught by the balls u will keep knocked down, but thats only  if youre close enought (meaning that if u were running directly to the mentalist without even jump) other wise, u could run after the knock-back without any problem.... But lets go back to the once who face the mentalist, yes, it was a perma knock back, but there was chance of cast an azal [a lot of Bps did it, even when they was caught with knock-back spam] but, is no the same that if a Bp catchs u ure dead? or if a YJ target you, die without chance f anything cuz of DI ? about the Hp for reflect, let me tell you that actually a Bp [yeah, those who have the OP damage] can get higger Hp than a mentalist can.

A STA mentalist can easily tank a STA BP. To be able to kill a Mentalist, a BP must swap gears and lower its HP. This, coupled with a well-timed Satanology, is the perfect opportunity to attack a BP. If you notice that a BP is no longer running toward you, stop attacking. When they eventually come around and try to asal you, (which they will have to do to kill you) use Satanology and attack (as they will be once again coming against you head on). Don't expect F1 to be an auto-kill until dead key. And I realize Holy Scrolls do nullify Satanology a bit, but a BP without a good reaction time will be out of luck. I'll address the HP issue below.

@Nowaki wrote:Plus: "the basic attack of Mentalists easily the best attack in-game. No other attack increases with relation to your opponent's gear and not your own." when your able to hit 1.1b+ no matter what ur oponent wearing.... i guess its better than the mentalist basic atack Very Happy, also there are no cracks or blades in game [the ones who use ICD] so ur damage will never scale more than the default adoch that comes with MC & Sets of Bps & YJ

But to reach 1.1b+ asal, a BP will have less HP than two successful hits with a wand attack. I don't know about you, but I don't see many people sieging in 1.1b+ asal gear. Which brings me to my second point - yes, BPs have an unfair ratio of STA/damage. I would personally like to see a damage decrease when above a certain amount of HP (similar to Knight attacks). If this gets addressed, a BP will have to switch into even LESS HP to be able to do any sort of good damage, thus opening up more opportunities for a YJ/Mentalist/Arcanist to kill them.

You say that there are no Crackshooters or Slayers in the game, but the Staff and I have witnessed a single blade tear apart a full guild in a "No Skill" siege. Imagine this - STA BPs without any skills - useless. STA YJs without any skills - useless. For them to think about competing, they'll have to adapt to an ADOCH build. And as mentioned above, this is where Mentalists will shine. A full STA mentalist will have no problem taking down higher ADOCH Slayers and other classes. If they have more HP than you? Well then they will likely have lower attack damage and not be able to kill you/will die to reflect + your wand attack. You may not see many Slayers and Crackshooters now, but I will assure that this will change when the trial period of the new guild siege is over. (And even now when Staff decides to host these special types of sieges). I also see them doing well in "No Food" sieges, as people won't be able to simply Remantis and act as if nothing is hitting them.

If you still believe that Mentalists are useless and would like to switch classes, i'm not going to stop you. I'm sure that a knowledgeable opportunist will see the possibilities that have been given to Mentalists with this new update and will purchase your gear. (Myself included.)

---

Additionally, I am one who likes to witness a good siege. I'll likely be starting a lot of these new siege modes for greater variety in-game and to give other classes a fighting chance.

##10 - Posted on Fri Sep 12, 2014 8:24 pm
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Ramon

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Amnesty is right with her points. A change to the knockback was necessary (even more because of the new siege modes).

As already mentioned a Mentalist would shine in most of the new modes and by shine I mean completely obliterating and dominating other classes. Just thinking about in theory makes sense.

No Food Siege - Perfect for the Menta he can just spam his Auto Attacks and will get kills even easier than in a normal siege since no one can use food to compensate the damage dealt to them.
No Skill Siege - This  is also pretty easy to understand: What are the most used sieging classes so far? YJs and FMs, right? Maybe Arcas. BUT what do all of them rely on? Correct, skills. Mentalists, and this is special about this server, dont rely on skills which makes them beast in this kind of siege.
No Swap Siege - Most sieging Mentalists don't switch because they dont have any cooldowns on the mechanism that grants them kills. As you said they deal enough damage in their STA EQ, so they can just sit there and keep AAing people until they die. FMs and YJs will have to choose: Glasscannon Build (High Damage no HP) to gain some points or Tanky (High HP, almost no damage) but why would anyone want to go that way. Another possibility would be the hybrid build, but I doubt it's gonna be easy to find a balance to be able to kill a Psy while still being able to tank 2 or 3 Autoattacks.

People have to keep in mind that the knockback chance just got REDUCED and not REMOVED as already mentioned.

Time will show how much impact each class will have on the new sieging modes. I am actually very happy about the variety of sieges because now every class can get a chance to actually get high points in the siege.

##11 - Posted on Fri Sep 12, 2014 10:07 pm
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Nowaki

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@Amnesty wrote:
@Nowaki wrote:1- Yes, i know the ADOCH calculation, thats why (if you check post again) i said "Note: all damages are calculed on BPs/yj" since their sets have ADOCH in effect....
Now, well it was true, once u where caught by the balls u will keep knocked down, but thats only  if youre close enought (meaning that if u were running directly to the mentalist without even jump) other wise, u could run after the knock-back without any problem.... But lets go back to the once who face the mentalist, yes, it was a perma knock back, but there was chance of cast an azal [a lot of Bps did it, even when they was caught with knock-back spam] but, is no the same that if a Bp catchs u ure dead? or if a YJ target you, die without chance f anything cuz of DI ? about the Hp for reflect, let me tell you that actually a Bp [yeah, those who have the OP damage] can get higger Hp than a mentalist can.

A STA mentalist can easily tank a STA BP. To be able to kill a Mentalist, a BP must swap gears and lower its HP. This, coupled with a well-timed Satanology, is the perfect opportunity to attack a BP. If you notice that a BP is no longer running toward you, stop attacking. When they eventually come around and try to asal you, (which they will have to do to kill you) use Satanology and attack (as they will be once again coming against you head on). Don't expect F1 to be an auto-kill until dead key. And I realize Holy Scrolls do nullify Satanology a bit, but a BP without a good reaction time will be out of luck. I'll address the HP issue below.

@Nowaki wrote:Plus: "the basic attack of Mentalists easily the best attack in-game. No other attack increases with relation to your opponent's gear and not your own." when your able to hit 1.1b+ no matter what ur oponent wearing.... i guess its better than the mentalist basic atack Very Happy, also there are no cracks or blades in game [the ones who use ICD] so ur damage will never scale more than the default adoch that comes with MC & Sets of Bps & YJ

But to reach 1.1b+ asal, a BP will have less HP than two successful hits with a wand attack. I don't know about you, but I don't see many people sieging in 1.1b+ asal gear. Which brings me to my second point - yes, BPs have an unfair ratio of STA/damage. I would personally like to see a damage decrease when above a certain amount of HP (similar to Knight attacks). If this gets addressed, a BP will have to switch into even LESS HP to be able to do any sort of good damage, thus opening up more opportunities for a YJ/Mentalist/Arcanist to kill them.

You say that there are no Crackshooters or Slayers in the game, but the Staff and I have witnessed a single blade tear apart a full guild in a "No Skill" siege. Imagine this - STA BPs without any skills - useless. STA YJs without any skills - useless. For them to think about competing, they'll have to adapt to an ADOCH build. And as mentioned above, this is where Mentalists will shine. A full STA mentalist will have no problem taking down higher ADOCH Slayers and other classes. If they have more HP than you? Well then they will likely have lower attack damage and not be able to kill you/will die to reflect + your wand attack. You may not see many Slayers and Crackshooters now, but I will assure that this will change when the trial period of the new guild siege is over. (And even now when Staff decides to host these special types of sieges). I also see them doing well in "No Food" sieges, as people won't be able to simply Remantis and act as if nothing is hitting them.

If you still believe that Mentalists are useless and would like to switch classes, i'm not going to stop you. I'm sure that a knowledgeable opportunist will see the possibilities that have been given to Mentalists with this new update and will purchase your gear. (Myself included.)

---

Additionally, I am one who likes to witness a good siege. I'll likely be starting a lot of these new siege modes for greater variety in-game and to give other classes a fighting chance.

1-As same as an sta bp can tank an sta any class and FD Damage YJ & mentalist, plus no1 can tank them if damage gear [templars can. but....]
2- im sure no1 of them [YJ & FM] will join in a siege without skills as son as they realise they cant do anything there (with "anything" i mean they cant 1 hit and run away) Very Happy so it wont be implemented at all, or they'll just skyp it, making itt no fun at all.
3- mentalist are useless in arena now [GS is no the only pvp place here]
4- you're right the satan can stops them for let balls hits them, it just worked a few times in arena, when they didnt exepted to get a debuff, but once they realised satan was insta removed, also they were jumping, and the balls follow them, even while they jump (with their OP slow speed) so while the balls go up and down again, he was really far away.... Now in siege where every1 have holding fingers on remmantis & Holies, its imposible to use that "trick"... Trust me i tried it by myself a lot of time, and didnt work a single one
5- about no swap siege, going to be hard for YJ since theyre need their gear to deal decent amount of damage, but they still having DI so i guess the will be on STR: HOP >run >DI>Hop but well thats something good since they are killable while out of DI... Now lets go back to BPS Very Happy they can easily go hybrith to have 450m hp + with 700m+ Azal enought to tank arcas & mentalist and still 1 hit everyone

Florentina wrote:Amnesty is right with her points. A change to the knockback was necessary (even more because of the new siege modes).

As already mentioned a Mentalist would shine in most of the new modes and by shine I mean completely obliterating and dominating other classes. Just thinking about in theory makes sense.

No Food Siege - Perfect for the Menta he can just spam his Auto Attacks and will get kills even easier than in a normal siege since no one can use food to compensate the damage dealt to them.
No Skill Siege - This is also pretty easy to understand: What are the most used sieging classes so far? YJs and FMs, right? Maybe Arcas. BUT what do all of them rely on? Correct, skills. Mentalists, and this is special about this server, dont rely on skills which makes them beast in this kind of siege.
No Swap Siege - Most sieging Mentalists don't switch because they dont have any cooldowns on the mechanism that grants them kills. As you said they deal enough damage in their STA EQ, so they can just sit there and keep AAing people until they die. FMs and YJs will have to choose: Glasscannon Build (High Damage no HP) to gain some points or Tanky (High HP, almost no damage) but why would anyone want to go that way. Another possibility would be the hybrid build, but I doubt it's gonna be easy to find a balance to be able to kill a Psy while still being able to tank 2 or 3 Autoattacks.

People have to keep in mind that the knockback chance just got REDUCED and not REMOVED as already mentioned.

Time will show how much impact each class will have on the new sieging modes. I am actually very happy about the variety of sieges because now every class can get a chance to actually get high points in the siege.

same point "2" i said to Amnesty
About Reduced not removed..... Srry but the only reason a BP didnt come running to ur face and azal infront of you, was cuz if balls touch them they're going to be on ground long enought to death.... Now they can just remantis and azal Very Happy there's no pint in running away from balls now.
Also note that if ur the one running away from a FM without... ur dead since the position problem of azal cast.... there's no way to win vs a BP if ur running away from them [not on menta]

##12 - Posted on Sat Sep 13, 2014 2:48 am
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