FM are blatantly overpowered, need nerfs

Fapplecake · Sun May 31, 2015 6:56 pm

Fapplecake

Can we finally balance out the FM? Here's a list of what's wrong with this class. These are not things that can't exist on their own, but the combination of these in one class is stupid.

- FM can oneshot the main tank class: this should not even exist.
- can tank every other class with full sta gear and still kill them
- has an innate debuff ability

The combination of being able to both tank and oneshot every other class in the game is a massive problem. There is no question about this, it should never be a thing in any game. It is the epitome of imbalanced.

Killing the main tank class in the game with one ability is something that should not happen. Tanks are meant to soak damage from multiple sources.

The innate debuff ability is something to top off the imbalance, but isn't so in itself.

My suggestion to fix this, would be to decrease the max hp for FM to just under the max hop for yj, so they can't tank everything anymore, but still take effort to kill. At the same time, nerf the damage of asal to about 900-950m. That way, FM can still kill everything, except templars, which is fair. Taking out a tank should require teamwork.

That is where Disenchant comes in. With all these changes, that ability would no longer be a problem. As it stands, however, there is no counter to the FM, as a tank. You can't rebuff anymore, since the cooldown on premium buff won't let you if Disenchant works twice in a row.

Of course, these are suggestions to balance, not destroy, if you have a better suggestion, or tweaks to this one, feel free to leave them here.

JackSparrowYAY · Sun May 31, 2015 10:09 pm

JackSparrowYAY

In my opinion nerfing Asalralaaikum skill damage to be below 1.1b is just a bad idea. This means that any FD Templar can survive the Siege without even dying once just perfectly with ease. Seraphs are barely to be found in this PvP arena, which means that Templars would be just horribly and increadibly over powered.

However reducing HP may be an optimal idea... Or maybe just increase Penya Strike skill damage instead.

Kaishirco · Mon Jun 01, 2015 4:58 am

Kaishirco

JackSparrowYAY wrote:
IvIaybe just increase Penya Strike skill damage instead.

Then that means we have to increase the hp of Bp as well right ? . . ?

Anyways Fapple . . . Then how is that fair to Bp as well xD? I mean they have short range skills ._. and every skills expect Asal have low damage. But i suggest that Mazey should just another 500/800 Sta stat in Templar's Aurum so they will have a little bit hp left to tank. And thats when the teamwork comes in xD. . . Very Happy

Dontchu Agree Very Happy

??????????????? Justkidding .

Fapplecake · Mon Jun 01, 2015 7:44 am

Fapplecake

JackSparrowYAY wrote:In my opinion nerfing Asalralaaikum skill damage to be below 1.1b is just a bad idea. This means that any FD Templar can survive the Siege without even dying once just perfectly with ease. Seraphs are barely to be found in this PvP arena, which means that Templars would be just horribly and increadibly over powered.

However reducing HP may be an optimal idea... Or maybe just increase Penya Strike skill damage instead.

How would it mean templars can survive? It just means that they won't be completely defenseless in the very likely event that they'll be the only ones left at the end, stuck with one FM, who can then just farm them for more points. The templar will subsequently be reported for feeding or point fixing. This is a stupid mechanic and needs to be removed. Only one left in the arena with a templar? Tough luck, you should have taken them down when you still had friends. That's what tanks should be. Unless there is some way that a templar can forfeit when left alone with a FM in the siege arena.

The fact that FM can tank other classes wouldn't be so bad if they didn't also have the damage to kill the only class that has more health.

All this would not be a problem if we removed switching from siege. (easiest fix to balance this game's pvp)

JackSparrowYAY · Mon Jun 01, 2015 8:42 am

JackSparrowYAY

EDIT:

JackSparrowYAY wrote:However reducing HP may be an optimal idea... Or maybe just increase Penya Strike skill damage instead.

<-- It's about FM HP, not Templar HP.
_________________________________________
What I mean is that all classes should have some weaknesses in which allows them to be killed. If we were to reduce Asal damage to be 900-950m, a Templar can perfectly fine stay alive throughout the whole Siege match except if two or more Forcemasters gang up and overpower the Templar. The problem is that if players were to gang up and co-operate in order to take this one Templar down, chances of surviving for the Templar will still be relatively high. The devestating hits don't hit the Templar all at the same time, which increases the chance of surviving for that class. In addition, having many people gangning up on this one player is just rediculous, when they could go around kill other players instead of getting killed by Reflect skill.

Fapplecake wrote:It just means that they won't be completely defenseless in the very likely event that they'll be the only ones left at the end, stuck with one FM, who can then just farm them for more points.

If we reduce the HP of Forcemasters so their HP is in range of a HoP, chances of having a FM 1v1-ing with a Templar at the end of the Siege will be lowered, I think.

Conclusion: There should be at least one class that can one shot the Templar.

Fapplecake wrote:All this would not be a problem if we removed switching from siege.

In my opinion, this is another case because it's related to the use of macro programs.

Fapplecake · Mon Jun 01, 2015 8:49 am

Fapplecake

JackSparrowYAY wrote:What I mean is that all classes should have some weaknesses in which allows them to be killed.
In my opinion, this is another case because it's related to the use of macro programs.

These two things:
Templars already have a weakness: they deal next to no damage while in tank gear. Nobody will die from being hit with 25m. They would be crowd control engines. That is their weakness. Survival is their only strength.

Swapping out gear in the siege arena has nothing to do with macro programs, those only make it easier. Just have an equipment lock in place while inside the battle arena. Players may adjust their equipment at will between lives. Having 720m hp one moment, 1.1b damage half a second later and then 720m hp again is ridiculous.

Cloaca · Mon Jun 01, 2015 11:33 am

Cloaca

This server tries to avoid nerfing the BP class as much as possible because majority of the server would cry about it, considering BPs are the main class on here, nevertheless, good luck with this suggestion though. This issue does need a fix though, the fact that a single BP at the end of siege can camp a templar with 10 lives and win it all.

LEgionDark · Mon Jun 01, 2015 12:04 pm

LEgionDark

If there is going to be FM to be nerfed in regards to PvP, then it should be equal among the other characters in the PvP Arena. Every class that is able to go to PvP should be nerfed to make the entire PvP GS Arena balanced fair and equal.

I bet FM items are the most expensive items in regards to Red Perins... If there is going to be more nerfing to this Class, then I bet players will lost 'favor' to the FMs, which means Donors have to look for another package that they can make lot of money off of it. You are messing up with the Mazey Economy with these suggestions.

JackSparrowYAY · Mon Jun 01, 2015 12:35 pm

JackSparrowYAY

LEgionDark wrote:If there is going to be FM to be nerfed in regards to PvP, then it should be equal among the other characters in the PvP Arena.

So, what you are saying is basically that the classes are fine as they are for now? If all classes are equally nerfed, then the nerf will have no effect what so ever.

EDIT:

Kaishirco wrote:Then that means we have to increase the hp of Bp as well right ? . . ?

Noticed this comment just now lol. My point is that increasing Hop damage will make any Forcemaster vulnerable for one shot hits, other than another asal.

Last edited by JackSparrowYAY on Tue Jun 02, 2015 12:35 am; edited 1 time in total

LEgionDark · Mon Jun 01, 2015 2:00 pm

LEgionDark

JackSparrowYAY wrote:

LEgionDark wrote:If there is going to be FM to be nerfed in regards to PvP, then it should be equal among the other characters in the PvP Arena.

So, what you are saying is basically that the classes are fine as they are for now? If all classes are equally nerfed, then the nerf will have no effect what so ever.

What I am (beeping) saying..is this.... If FM needs to be nerfed, then nerfed the other classes as well. Stop focusing on just one class character. That is what Equal among the other characters is about.

Templars needs to be strong in their tank/reflection....
YJ needs to be strong in their HOP.....
FM needs to be strong in their ASAL
Arcanist needs to be strong in their EVA and WF.....
and so on.....

But balanced enough that dominating the PvP Seige Arena can happen at random times. Which means ..... be able to spread out the MvP title crown, instead of allowing only one player to be able to get it all the time.

Kaishirco · Mon Jun 01, 2015 2:50 pm

Kaishirco

# Mostly about how u use that job. This suggestion is ohhh my gawdddd brain go boomie

Fapplecake · Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:56 pm

Fapplecake

Kaishirco wrote:# Mostly about how u use that job. This suggestion is ohhh my gawdddd brain go boomie

70% of the server's population play FM, what do you think the reason for that is? Because they're overpowered. Because other classes can't even touch them.

Kaishirco · Tue Jun 02, 2015 12:02 am

Kaishirco

I dont play Bp i play psy lol.

LEgionDark · Tue Jun 02, 2015 5:51 am

LEgionDark

Fapplecake wrote:

Kaishirco wrote:# Mostly about how u use that job. This suggestion is ohhh my gawdddd brain go boomie

70% of the server's population play FM, what do you think the reason for that is? Because they're overpowered. Because other classes can't even touch them.

That is BS. You guys have been always @@ about nerfing, instead of actual coming up with a idea that can actual boost up the other characters' strength ability to counter against the FM. The Answers is base on the every PvP class character's 2nd special powers.

For YJ, boost up their Sneak and Vital Stabs
Sneak Stabs information from Flyff Wiki
Level 10 = Attack 135 ~ 136 PVM 65% / PVP 32% 88 FP 0:05 0:05 sec
Other words increase that skill's attack ability and make it more strong for PvP.

For an example:

Vital Stabs
Level 10 Attack 146 ~ 147 2x Crit Damage 40% 117 FP 1 Hit per use 0:10 sec
Increase the atk ability also increase the Crit Damage output.

Also increase this one as well...
level 5 108-M Yo-Yo Mastery +70 100% 500 FP 10:00 0:05 sec
-----------------------------
Arcanist's EvA Storm
5 Attack 150 ~ 151 Stun PVM 25% / PVP 12% 500 MP 0:03 None
-------------------------------------------

Then there can be the possibility of copy catting the Buff Breaker, to a point that we could create a Temperory ASAL Block which is ability to block certain amount of ASAL damage output.

JackSparrowYAY · Tue Jun 02, 2015 6:02 am

JackSparrowYAY

LEgionDark wrote:That is BS. You guys have been always @@ about nerfing, instead of actual coming up with a idea that can actual boost up the other characters' strength ability to counter against the FM.

This topic is about nerfing Forcemasters. Ideas related to other classes are considered to be off topic. For instance; my own quote is off topic:

JackSparrowYAY wrote:However reducing HP may be an optimal idea... Or maybe just increase Penya Strike skill damage instead.

LEgionDark · Tue Jun 02, 2015 7:39 am

LEgionDark

JackSparrowYAY wrote:

LEgionDark wrote:That is BS. You guys have been always @@ about nerfing, instead of actual coming up with a idea that can actual boost up the other characters' strength ability to counter against the FM.

Actual Jack, I am on topic...further Nerfing FM will end up causing the PvP S.A more imbalanced to a degree that FM will be replaced by another OP character class.... then you guys will make another same type of posts in saying 'This Class Character is now OP...Let's Nerf it as well."

From what is being saying said so far, which I can notice a hidden message in these posts. " I DO NOT WANT FM TO BE OP, because I rather have my character to be OP instead."

You can actual Neft FM by focusing on improving other class' structure without actual doing more damage to the FM and without actual need to edit FM all the time. So by making another class powerful to handle the FM, you are basically nerft FM to be weak against another class. There is more then one way to nerft a FM.

Shai · Tue Jun 02, 2015 10:03 am

Shai

I think these things will summarize the entirety of this suggestion:

1. FM should not be able to 1-hit a Templar--making it useless as a tank.
2. FM should not be able to tank a HoP--makes it hard for YJs to kill it.
3. YJ should be able to 1-hit a FM--attains its purpose to be a counter to FM.

I really believe that a FM can 1-hit a Templar at the beginning of siege. It's just that they don't want to take the risk and kill someone instead and save it for the later part. I think Asal and Templar's HP should be taken into consideration.

There's a lot of ways to skin a cat(sorry for cat lovers, this is really gruesome)and that's where other classes enter. But imo, it's really hard to balance the classes with the existence of premium buff and holy scrolls. I mean debuffing a Templar could be bypassed by using premium buff and their HP is still kinda high--at 1b if I'm not mistaken--and FM can still kill it(why Asal should be nerfed in my opinion). Using negative status/effect skills could be bypassed by Holy Scrolls--makes it even harder to kill a certain class. I'm not suggesting to remove those items because it will really be complicated. The reason why I went off-topic and brought it up is because somehow those little things are being overlooked upon.

Back on the drawing board, if FMs HP will be reduced, then YJs would somehow be OP, I guess. Just a thought though. I mean they can DI, then 1-hit a FM, time counter perfectly, use pande, et al. Which is kinda tricky. FM, on the other hand, can just use Asal and perhaps Sonichand to immobilize the enemy while waiting for Asal's cooldown. I know there is way to oppose counter but with the number of YJs in siege that can DI, I don't think that it will matter.

I'm just stating possible scenarios because in my opinion, balancing a server is hard and tricky at the same time. I mean it is so vast and broad that we have to consider a whole lot of things. Not just nerfing another class or boosting because somehow another class will step up to the top.

But I firmly believe on these things:

1. FM should not be able to 1-hit a Templar
2. FM should not be able to tank a HoP
3. YJ should be able to 1-hit a FM

On how it will be done, I don't know. But this thread is good for players to speak their minds out. Man, my post is epic-ly longggg. Sorry.

Kaishirco · Tue Jun 02, 2015 10:23 am

Kaishirco

Shai wrote:I think these things will summarize the entirety of this suggestion:

1. FM should not be able to 1-hit a Templar--making it useless as a tank.
2. FM should not be able to tank a HoP--makes it hard for YJs to kill it.
3. YJ should be able to 1-hit a FM--attains its purpose to be a counter to FM.

Than whats the whole point of playing a bp then lol? . .

Shai · Tue Jun 02, 2015 10:38 am

Shai

Kaishirco wrote:

Shai wrote:I think these things will summarize the entirety of this suggestion:

1. FM should not be able to 1-hit a Templar--making it useless as a tank.
2. FM should not be able to tank a HoP--makes it hard for YJs to kill it.
3. YJ should be able to 1-hit a FM--attains its purpose to be a counter to FM.

Than whats the whole point of playing a bp then lol? . .

To kill other STA class like STA Mentalist and/or STA Arcanist. You can also kill YJ. I believe the reason why players go for FM is because they can 1-hit a Templar and tank HoP, which in layman's term is: overpowered.

Kaishirco · Tue Jun 02, 2015 10:53 am

Kaishirco

Dude Sta Mentalist cant even tank hop and u dont see Mentalist user crying lol. Bp are op but think about it . They are not range user, their skills are pretty wreck beside Sonic Hand and Asal. So i think the way it is now is perfect. Just how bp players likes it.Can someone make a suggestion about Mentalist's Hp Very Happy

???? But just my opinions .

Sorry if i was off topic.

JackSparrowYAY · Tue Jun 02, 2015 11:27 am

JackSparrowYAY

@Kaishirco: That was off topic. Better create your own topic regarding that. You should also take note that billposters generally don´t use any skills for PvP purposes other than Asalralaaikum, Sonic hand and Stone Hand. It has always been so and will also always be.

Kaishirco · Tue Jun 02, 2015 11:37 am

Kaishirco

I know it was off topic. But not totally off topic .

LEgionDark · Tue Jun 02, 2015 2:46 pm

LEgionDark

FM in STA had high power ASAL in STA Mode, that got nerft. I m talking about anything past 450M or 475M on FM STA = reduce of ASAL Damage which forces FM to switch over to Full STR to be able use FULL damage ASAL. In FULL STR, any class can kill a FM.

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FM are blatantly overpowered, need nerfs

Fapplecake

JackSparrowYAY

Kaishirco

Fapplecake

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Fapplecake

Cloaca

LEgionDark

JackSparrowYAY

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Kaishirco

Fapplecake

Kaishirco

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JackSparrowYAY

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